Bus Route Shake Up - Kingston & Surbiton

17 years ago...

What does everyone think of the London Buses shake up due to happen at the end of July 2007:

1) Bus routes 406 and 418 will no longer serve St Marks Hill, Surbiton Station, Claremont Road and Surbiton Crescent. They will instead divert via Surbiton Hill Road (Hollyfield School). I strongly object to this plan.
The 418 will be made double deckers on all services and its evening and sunday services will be increased.
Both routes 406 and 418 will be taken over by Quality Line (I hold reservations about this, but am willing to give them a chance). This route is currently operated by Transdev London United from Tolworth Garage.

2) Bus route 465 will no longer serve Penrhyn Road or Brook Street. It will be diverted after Surbiton Road, down to Portsmouth Road and up to High Street and then on to Eden Street to its existing line of route.

3) Bus route 71 will see increased Sunday service.

4) Bus route 85 will be extended to terminate at Kingston University Penrhyn Road Campus. (Still under consultation)

5) During the night, existing route N85 will be extended from Kingston to Chessington World of Adventures via the 71 route. (still under consultation)

6) From the 17th March, bus route 213 will have an increased frequency Mon - Sat from 10 mins to 8 minutes, resulting in an extra bus in each direction per hour. On sundays, there will be 5 buses per hour on a Sunday as opposed to the current 4.

7) From 26th May, bus route 131 will be extended from Wimbledon, to Tooting via the 57 route. Bus route 57 will have an increased frequency of 12 minutes M-S, and route 57 school journeys will be withdrawn.


The newer buses these days are enviro's, however, those that I travel on, single decked 465's suffer badly from braking faults. You get to know the drivers and some are very good, but at least two of the buses allways stop with a jolt...... Its not a driving fault its something to do with the buses as it is allways the same buses...

...Back to the original post: What exactly are your reservations about QUALITY LINE operating the 406/418 routes?.........surely they have a good reputation, don't they???

You dont even get dumped outside McD's - you get left at Fairfield, have to walk through back streets to get to Eden Street for the N281. Its ridiculous, unsafe and must be very frightening for some people

The night bus only going to Kingston is really very inconvenient - you get dumped outside McDonalds in the dead of night, and wait for up to half an hour in the freezing cold for the 281.

Total journey time can be up to 1 1/2 hours for a 15 mile journey - the bus to Oxford is quicker than that!

They should definitely bring back the full-length night-bus route.

!!! I live in Chessington and work in London, and frequently need to get from Kingston or Putney to Chessington after 2am. We NEED a nightbus!

Yeh it stopped last year when the 281 became 24 hour.
The N22 was cut back to Fulwell and the N77 (renumbered N87) was cut back to Kingston.

From 30th June, N85 will operate an extended route from Kingston to Chessington World of Adventures during the night, along the daytime 71 route thereby providing a link from Putney to Surbiton/Hook/Chessington.

Plans to introduce route N85 between Putney Bridge and Chessington have been abandoned.

Presumably route 85 will remain operating 24 hours between Putney Bridge and Kingston.

What bus runs from Regent Street to Kingston via Richmond???

None anymore. Used to be N22, didn't it?.

That's right. I didn't realise it had stopped, as I am never out much past midnight in town anymore.

I'd love a night bus service from putney to chessington, as it would mean I could catch the last tube to putney from central london and get back home.

How would that benefit you more than a nightbus service running from Surbiton to Chessington?

Surely the 01.05 last train from Waterloo to Surbiton would mean you could leave town later than relying on the last tube from Putney? It would be a quicker overall journey as well, because a nightbus from Putney to Chessington would take the best part of an hour with the odd routes that they take.

I sometimes get the nightbus back from Regent Street to Kingston, and it always takes about an hour as it seems to turn away from Kingston at every junction! You get to Richmond, and think you are almost home, but then it takes in loads more places first. Compare this to the rail replacement bus direct from Waterloo to Surbiton, which takes less than 25 minutes.

I email the London Buses Customer Service, who then forward it to the relevant teams (ie bus companies, garage officials, infrastructure etc)...

their email is customerservices@tfl-buses.co.uk

good point about the bus stop will put forward this suggestion because there is a need for a stop between Surbiton Hospital and the Phone Exchange!

Who do you put this feedback to?
Is it tfl, the bus companies, or the council?
I'm going to drop them a line as well.

Going back to the original question, I don't really see the sense in no longer putting the 406 and 418 past surbiton station.
Every morning, loads of commuters get off these buses at the station.
Are they expected to wait longer to cram into other buses? Seems mad to me.
Maybe TfL don't want people to use Surbiton station anymore? That might also explain the recent 37% fare rise that TfL "negotiated" with SWT.

If they are going to see this through, then to compensate, a bus stop must be provided as close as possible to the South Bank / Ewell Road junction to allow people to walk down the hill to surbiton station.

This will cause problems for anyone trying to get from Surbiton to Epsom. There is no reasonable train route (you have to change at Wimbledon/Raynes Park, making it a long and very expensive journey).

Routes 406 and 418 are the only ones to serve Epsom, so if anyone from central Surbiton wants to get one they will now have to walk an extra half mile back to Penrhyn Road or to Ewell Road.

I think it is no bad thing to reduce some of the buses coming through Surbiton, though. They are crowded, but the amount of people that get on buses at Surbiton Crescent only to get off again at the station (under half a mile away) is a disgrace! I am sure these people could bear standing for their 30 second journey. Less buses would reduce congestion at the station roundabout in rush hour.

Your point about TfL trying to reduce the traffic through Surbiton station is very valid. They seem very willing to put in massive fare hikes without increasing service levels.

The thing is, in London you cant have fewer buses with higher load factors.

If there arent buses WHEN you want them, people will turn to cars.

The amount of people travelling by bus in London is constantly increasing from year to year!

Many routes, such as the 213, are overwhelmed and need more buses. You cannot get on a 213 in New Malden towards Sutton at 3:30, without waiting for the 3rd bus to come along. Only then, you just but squeeze in for an uncomfortable journey.

Its not fewer buses we need, its fewer cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right and wrong,what we need is more roads,wider roads and parking facilities.
When all cars are pollutant free by using bio fuel/lpg etc there will be even more on the road,people are just not going to give up their independence and comfort,.

Call it selfish but that is the reality.

May be if there were fewer busses with higher load factors it would help.

I really fail to understand your link between free travel and pollution?

25 elderly females on a bus all with free travel does not make it polluting. If these elderly ladies wanted to get to town, they would inevitably either be UNABLE to do so, have to get a lift of a friend (25 x more cars) etc etc...

And you make a note of counting 37 people on 4 x K2 routes at 9:30 ish this morning.
That works out at an average of 9.25 people per bus.
Firstly, the bus picks up and sets down customers along the entire route, so you must not judge the routes success purely on one location. Secondly, where are you located on the K2 route? Kingston? Surbiton? Berrylands? Tolworth? Hook? I suspect you must be near berrylands / tolworth end.

HF busses sound great,but surely a Deisel powered job with a few old folks on it who dont pay (like me),is polluting? On this point why should the over sixties get free travel,it should be means tested and folks like me forced to pay a contribution if we want a pass.

Just seen 4x K2 pass me with a total of 37 on board so assuming they all drive you do have a good point,on the other hand at least 25 were elderly ladies who may not drive anyway.I am not really nit picking but seems to me nothing reagrding G/Warming or pollution is at all clear.

You are of course quite correct that I am rather selfish, a touch intolerant rather than arrogant and would admit to a certain ignorance.I also drink,drive and fly a lot so not much hope for me then.

Just like most folks I meet..

Perhaps I should stay in a bit more,

Firstly, buses have automatic transition, so they dont have a clutch. I know exactly what you are on about when you describe the 'jerking motion'. Unfortunately, it seems to be a problem amongst the whole fleet of single decker buses the same as those used on the K2.

I have to strongly disagree with your comment :'they are polluting'. This is far from true. Buses in London are now less polluting than ever. In fact, in Central London, there have been trials of Hydrogen Fueled buses, with their main pollutant being WATER (in the form of steam). I would say that in the years to come, a lot more of these HF buses will be rolled out.

The fact is, buses are able to carry up 60+ people on double deckers, so assuming thats 60 cars... converted into one bus... the bus is LESS polluting than 60 cars. How you can justify they are polluting is beyond me.

If under a mile, walk - fair comment! If over a mile - get public transport rather than kill the planet!

I'm completely stunned at your ignorant, arrogant and selfish manner.

I did use a K2 some years ago and found that the driver could not control his clutch/accelerator pedals.The bus jerked its way for a couple of stops before I got off never to use the bus again.
Get them off the road,they are polluting and a damn nuisance with their little bus lanes of odd lengths and starnge timings.

No,if under a mile walk,if over a mile drive and support Mr Brown with your fuel taxes,but no mor busses please.

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