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Red Lion Pub - Redevelopment - Ewell Road - Tolworth

12 years ago...

Has anyone got any further news on this:

http://www.cnmestates.com/portfolio/RedLion.pdf

It's a pdf on the plans for the redevelopment of the old Red Lion pub in Tolworth.
Looks like it's the same firm that built the new flats opposite Surbiton station.
A mix of shops and 69 flats with commercial premises also (including keeping the pub)
Did anyone go to the open day back in November?
Apparently there are plans for a hotel near Tolworth roundabout too.

Comments

http://www.showcase.co.uk/property/Ewell-Road/Greater-London/Surbiton/88...

If you click their marketing brochure/flyer link you can see that the other will be retail/restaurant.... Any thoughts on who WILL/SHOULD get the premisis?

that brochure says available from sept 2012. Sainsbury are the retail store, Pizza Express and Bath Store the other 2. Still waiting for the DC meeting to discuss the question of 17 unauthorised amendments including the height being c1.3 metres higher than agreed. Meeting should be in June

LINDEN HOMES got away with 17 unauthorised changes

I don't understand why we suddenly need so many branches of Sainsburys! The population has increased a bit due to all of these new flats, but surely that is offset by the good proportion of people who now shop online. I'd expect less demand overall for stores, not more.

Pizza Express is exactly the right fit for that location, in my opinion. I don't think Tolworth is ready for a high end independent restaurant yet, so a chain with a broad appeal and a good image like this should be about right. I actually think it is quite a coup for an up and coming area like Tolworth to get one at this stage, considering how long they took to open one in Surbiton which is a little bit further along the path.

They have asked for permission to convert another Pub near the new Health Shop on Ewell Road,the reason is that smaller niche markets stores in
very affluent areas like ours are favoured over huge mega markets.

The huge shops will become shopping and leisure destination centres as well as Supermarkets,this means that Tesco will be disposing of its
Toby Jug site in due course when a viable and profitable house or light industrial need is revealed by the ever accelerating economy locally.

We are indeed blessed to have so much choice and online shopping for the bulkier less selective groceries.

It is a great pity that the Surbiton and Tolworth road system is already so manifestly unable to cope with the existing traffic.

I suppose you are right. I myself have moved away from grocery shopping online because Waitrose is on my way home, so it makes more sense just to pop in there a couple of times a week.

I agree the traffic is a problem in the area as a whole and that is why I like to live in central Surbiton with everything in walking distance. Hopefully the spread of these smaller local supermarkets will engender less car use in the are as a whole.

Agreed,I walk to Waitrose and only get bulk wines or beers online,we are so lucky to live in one of the best kept suburban secrets.

I agree, although I fear it is not as secret as it once was! When I first moved to Surbiton about 15 years ago, it was treated with derision by my London colleagues. Now everyone seems to know where it is and most seem to know someone who lives here!

It doesn't seem to have taken too many years of people moving further down the A3 from Wimbledon and Richmond for Surbiton to shake off part of it's Good Life image and even become a tiny bit fashionable.

Love it here.

Just to tell you that they have breached planning regulations as the height is higher than that approved in 2010. Kingston enforcement have told them to submit an application for permission to be at the new higher height. I hope enough people will object when and if it goes to planning committee.

any update on this?

Being discussed at the Planning "Development Control" meeting tomorrow night. Planners describe the building's construction nearly a metre taller than approved as a minor infringement, and do not recommend any enforcement action, rescindment of permission, etc.

Read more at the link below.

http://www.kingston.gov.uk/council_and_democracy/committeeminutes/modern...

The item has been pulled from 30th march agenda as there are now 220 solar panels on the roof which are not in the position as per plan. Apart for the height issue 1.3 metres higher plus the 45 degree angle solar panels there are 15 other amendments. They knew about the height issue in 2011 and kept on building. They have been told they are in breach of planning.

This strikes me as a good opportunity to extract a bit more from the developers.

If the council decided that the increased height did have an adverse visual impact, they could ask for the whole development to be stopped. The developers could then appeal to the Planning Inspectorate in Bristol, but that would take several months to resolve. That's several more months of delayed earnings for the developer.

There is a risk involved for both the council and the developers - the council incurrs the costs of the appeal, while the developer risks having to make major alterations to the whole development. A compromise is in both parties interests.

In this scenario, I'm sure the developers could be persuaded to offer to mitigate the impact of their unauthorised development by providing some additional benefit to the community. In turn the council would drop its objections.

A prime target of community benefit would be to supply new play equipment in the nearby Alexandra Drive playground. Despite it's popularity, it has relatively poor play equipment when compared to other playgrounds. It was due for a major makeover two years ago, but that got cancelled because of the austerity cuts. If the developers were to supply some modern play equipment to improve this park in return for approving the unauthorised work, I'm sure most people would see this as a win win for everybody..

Any thoughts?

I'll pass your comments to people involved who would probably not think play equipment in place of this massive increase that they see from their gardens is worth it. It was always too big, too dense etc but the planning Inspector did not help Tolworth. Todays Planning policies (in draft in 2009) would not have passed the original building let alone the 16 amendments. The extra height is appalling. We doubt Kingston councillors will be brave to go against planning who were recommending permit, before they pulled the meeting due to 220 solar panels not shown on the new roof plan! I'm all for win win but think the developers should do the right thing and take it down now, then they can finish, cut their losses, and sue CNM estates for rubbish plans. They won't will they.

What's a metre here or there amongst friends,god job it isn't Janet Bloggs and her and her loft extension!

So, what's the new car wash on the same site all about?

Gawd knows. Makes Tolworth EVEN MORE tackier. Demolishing the Red Lion pub was a big mistake as it was probably the oldest building on the Broadway - rebuilt in 1906

No idea, according to what I can see, permission was refused:-
http://maps.kingston.gov.uk/isis_main/Planning/Planning_DETAIL.aspx?strC...
The place looks like such an eyesore. I'm guessing the land owner is waiting for the market to pick up or was having problems with funding or planning permission. When they do get permission I hope they ensure there is adequate parking on the premises.

CNM estates do not appear to be able to start or finish any of their 6 plus developments locally. The illegal car wash (he paid CNM for a 6 month lease) was refused planning permission and now have an enforcement notice which means they have to get off by 15 Feb 2010, after which who knows. In 2009 CNM was given permission to knock down the pub and build 50 flats with retail underneath and car parking for 50 plus at ground level. They also have 3 years in which to build it. However, CNM was granted a 3 year extension to the Ellerton Road site as the original 3 years permission ran out DEc2010. Problems for all residents is that all these sites are now an eyesore.

To anyone who is interested CNM Estates have decided to appeal to Bristol by way of a public enquiry regarding the refusal of their development of the Red Lion Pub site. Typically CNM have already amended the plans from those heard and rejected at council meeting, with the full knowledge and presumably acceptance by Kingston planning. Did CNM pay for the the Rose theatre?? Full details on the planning website. Those who objected will get a letter from the council and have to make comments to Bristol by mid October. Is there any chance the public will be listened to or will CNM once again get their way and ruin another part of Surbiton by overdevelopment of a site - 10 houses on the land from one bungalow and a bit of 2 back gardens, plus a replacement pub & shops (will they be needed as 5 have just closed in Tolworth) and around 50 flats on land previously used for 40 plus cars. Surely enough is enough.

The Public Enquiry is on 6 th January 2009 at Kingston The Guildhall 10.00am anyone can attend and speak at the discretion of the Inspector

i HAVE JUST HEARD THAT CNM LOST THEIR APPEAL ON THE RED LION SITE

I agree totally. Apart from anything else, what you have to remember is that the reason for building all of these flats in the last 10 years is that house prices have got so high that people cannot afford anything else. If prices come down by 50%, as a lot of people are now predicting, what happens to all of the flats then?

Worst case is that they all become social housing, and the centre of Kingston (Royal Quarter etc) starts to get the same social mix that you see around Clapham Junction.

To a certain extent, the central part of Surbiton has always had a lot of flats, and the station may mean that people want to keep living here, but areas like Kingston and Tolworth would suffer more.

In the downturn, people will begin to turn to larger houses as they can get more for their money. 20 or so years ago, the Kingston borough would have been one of the premier places to live outside of central London. How far away are we from this crazy planning process turning it into one of the least sought after? Already I hear people sometimes referring to Kingston as a 'sh*thole'. 20 years ago - before I moved to the area- you would never hear that, Kingston was almost universally seen as a 'posh' area, somewhere to aspire to living.

I realise that this has happened in a lot of areas, but Kingston is one that was already quite crowded for it's infrastructure. What the council do not seem to understand is that you cannot double the population density of an area without improving this infrastructure. Kingston was designed as a 'leafy surburb', and much investment will be needed is it is to turn into a city as the developers seem to want.

Does anyone know how to be informed about residents meetings? I live in tolworth/berrylands but never seem to be informed about the development.

It will be interesting to see how CNM change their plans, perhaps a few more advertised public meetings may be a good starting point.

Does anyone know if there is a local residents group campaigning to get a more realistic red lion development? We live nearby and would like to get involved but no idea how.

There is but it may be too late. The decision will be taken tomorrow at the Guildhall at the 7.30 meeting. The residents' committee will be speaking for the 5 minutes allowed. We hope we will be able to convince the members to overturn the council approval. Anyone can turn up

Round 1 to the objectors as the planning application was rejected by the Development Control Committee. Support will be needed for the next stage which may involve an appeal but certainly another planning applicatioj

There are no pubs left in Tolworth now unless you count the Charrington Bowling alley bar.

I think they intend to build a new pub as part of the development. Plus there's always the Broadway Cafe - not a pub though.

I heard a rumour that JDW have put in a bid for 1 of the units.

Another one! They already have the Cap in Hand and the Coronation Hall. Whilst a Wetherspoons would fit in well in Tolworth I am not sure it is what the area needs!

Good idea - we lost the Toby & Red Lion - Bar broadway is horrid

I don't live anywhere near London any more but I used to have a dring with my pals in the 1970s there & was very sorry to see it had closed when I visted the area last year.
Regards Mike

does anyone have a link for the new red lion plans? someone said they are on the kingston planning website but i cannot find them!!

would love to see them.

Case number 0810099.

Here's the link:
http://maps.kingston.gov.uk/isis_main/planning/planning_summary.aspx?str...

Otherwise, there's a simple plan on the PDF linked at the top of the page if that's any use?

Surbiton.com webmaster

Your LINK WORKS, but the original link at the top of the page shows the old plans since changed. I have been trying to find out the date for the planning meeting but to no avail. I would like to speak at the meeting, does anyone else because you only get 5 minutes in total for one application so any presentation would need to be co-ordinated?

rEFERENCE 08/10099/FUL RED LION PH, 366 EWELL ROAD, 2 RED LION ROAD & PART OF 6 LENELBY ROAD, SURBITON
Demolition of existing buildings. Redevelopment to provide public house (A4 Use), 3 x ground floor mixed use units (A1/A2/A3) and 61 residential dwellings comprising, 1 x 4-bedroom house, 9 x 3-bedroom houses, 4 x 3-bedroom flats, 18 x 2-bedroom flats and 29 1-bedroom flats with basement parking, access and landscaping. I have been advised that this application has not been withdrawn but that the applicant is intending to submit revised drawings, on which local residents will be re-consulted.

Possible South of the Borough Neighbourhood Committee on 9 July 2008 and Surbiton Committee on 16 July 2008 for Members to give their observations. As these Committees will not be making a decision on the application, it will be possible for any member of the public to speak at these meetings on the planning application.
Development Committee on 23 July 2008 for decision. Any member of the public wishing to speak at this meeting will need to register.

Time to find out what CNM plans are?

I can\t believe that amount of flat building going on in Surbiton. CMN must be greasing someone on the planning department. I had a look at the old post office redevelopment and the build quality is absolutely shocking.
I cant believe Claremont Hall is going to be turned into windowless, storage free rabbit hutches. Going to make my protest.....

Is that actually happening with Claremont Hall? I could not see the planning application approved on the RBK website.

Claremount Hall is up for sale at the moment so no palnning applications are yet in the system but I bet CNM estates buys it!!

I can't understand it. Even the nicer flats in the river roads are not selling in the current market for £350k, so I don't know why CNM think that they can sell flats by the YMCA/Red Lion Road/Alpha Road for more than that!

I read in the local Guardian that there is a residents association to oppose the Red Lion development - anyone know about it as I would like to get involved

Does anyone know if the Church has sold Claremont Hall and if so who too? Will it get knocked down and/or developed into flats?

Claremont Hall has apparently been sold along with the 3 detached houses at 100-104 Maple Road.

The strange thing is that no planning permission exists to build flats on this site. The site on Maple Road have had permission to demolish the houses and build 21 flats in their place.

I personally think that these two developments are a disaster for Surbiton. This area of the town has a fantastic Victorian heritage, which has been somewhat over-run by ugly 1960's and 1970's high density housing. However, the area still retains a certain amount of charm. More high density development is likely to push the area over the edge, as it will contain more blocks of flats than houses.

The buildings that will be demolished are actually 1920's rather than Victorian, but still add something to the feel of the area.

The fact that it is a church doing this is even more galling.

This thread started with the development at the Red Lion Road pub. The new plans are now on the Kingston planning website and have been changed to more art deco but it still looks massive. I hope lots of locals will bother to read the 248 page planning application and make comment as I will be doing.
To the writer of the comments re Maple Road and Claremount Hall I am dispmayed too that what were (before being allowed to get derelict) wonderful houses now have permission to be demolished and a HUGE block of flats put in place. I expect the same fate will happen to Claremount Hall unless people stand up and counted. It does belong to the church.
Unfortunately planning committees have to look at each application on its merit to make a decision. However somebody should be looking at the total amount of redevelopment going on, especially where CNM Estates are concerned. Not only have they developed the Plaza, they have taken over 2a Ellerton Road (23 flats and shops, work not started) off the Ewell Road, and in spite of known flood risks , the proposed development in place of the Red Lion Pub on the EweLL Road (61 units mix of houses and flats, a pub and shops) and I read that they have submitted an application for a 105 bedroom hotel next to Tolworth station which will then be opposite the TESCO site (850 units?? etc) Can the A3 and the Ewell Road cope with all this extra traffic let alone the additional water and sewerage needs.

I am gagging for some new modern flats/homes in Tolworth. flats opposite alexandra park, main transport links, 15 mins from kingston, 10 mins from surbiton! its a dream!

BRING IT ON,

however they change the existing plans cause they were ugly. love the idea of a bar aswell!

If you are interested in commenting on this development go to the Kingston Planning website. The details for the 61 dwellings, pub and shops will soon be their.

I am looking forward to this new development. I really hope it goes ahead. Tolworth needs to be woken up and revitalised.

This sounds as if this has been written by the Developers, as have half the other supporters for this load of architectural money making rubbish, forget the locals eh!..

UPDATE on Red Lion - From Savills.

I can confirm that no planning application has been submitted for the Red Lion Public House site as yet. We are currently in the process of reworking the proposals following public consultation in November last year. There is no set date for submission at the moment and as such development is unlikely to commence this Spring.

When an application is submitted a notice will be raised on site and the Council will issue notices to residents they deem to be affected by the proposals. You will be able to access all the details of the application either on the Council's planning web pages or at their offices.

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